Interview: THE NEW GODS’ Creative Team Discusses Building Up DC’s Fourth World
Warning! Minor spoilers for The New Gods #3 ahead!The New Gods’ latest adventure has just begun, but fans are about to get some major clues as to what lies ahead for the iconic characters. Late last year, DC Comics’ Fourth World returned in The New Gods by Ram V and Evan Cagle in a series that instantly became a critical hit and a fan-favorite.
After Darkseid’s death in the DC All In Special, a child with unfathomable power has emerged and Highfather has ordered Orion to kill him, though Orion has roped in Mister Miracle to save him. As the pieces on this grand chessboard fall into place, The New Gods' creative team spoke with Screen Rant about where things are heading as the series kicks into high gear.
Screen Rant: The last time we talked, The New Gods hadn’t been released, but a few issues are out now and people are just loving this book. Were you shocked at the reception?
Ram V: Shocked? No. Happy? Yes. (laughs) I'm one of those, like, eternally optimistic people. Like, the world could be on fire. My living room is on fire. One of the walls blown out. And I'm like, "Things are all right. It'll be okay. I'm sure things will be fine.".
Evan Cagle: All of those things are true. The world is on fire. You do currently do have a hole in the wall. (laughs)
Ram V: So yeah, I'm never shocked when good things happen. I'm always like, "Yeah, I knew it was going to be good.". I'm always shocked when bad things happen. So fortunately, I have not had too many occasions to be shocked.
Evan Cagle: I wouldn't say that I was shocked that people liked it. I was shocked at how generous hardcore Kirby fans were toward it. Not that I expected people to hate it, but I expect, generally, when a sort of beloved property is touched for any reason, people instantly set fire to themselves in anger and people were incredibly generous toward the book. Even the sort of 'on the fence ones' were like, "Well, I'll give it a shot.".
Ram V: I love how the general opinion went from, "I'm not sure about this new Orion design, what's up with that helmet?" to a week later, like, "I love this helmet. This helmet is the best thing in the world.". And then we did the Astro-Harness/Cycle. And people were like, "That's the coolest Orion.".
Evan Cagle: That one, I legitimately was shocked by it, because I expected pushback. I expected rotten tomatoes thrown at my door. And yeah, everyone seemed to love it. So that's cool.
Evan, last time we talked, you talked about this being your first monthly book. I know we’re only a few issues in, but how’s that change been?
Evan Cagle: It's all right. I mean, we've scheduled things in such a way, I won't say this is the training wheels version, exactly. But I've gotten more breathing room in sharing our duties with guest artists. And I don't want to say break issues, but issues where I do fewer pages and let the guest artists sort of take the reins. And that's been great. I really, honestly was expecting at this point, I would have no hair, and what hair was left would be gray, and I would, you know, be this emaciated, wasted shell of a human who had just been drawing for 36 hours straight. And it's actually not been bad.
Speaking of art duties, we’ve seen a few other artists join in The New Gods, Jorge Fornés, Jesse Longergan, and Riccardo Federicci in the upcoming issue. What’s it like working with these additional artists and how do they serve this story?
Ram V: I think the intention was to remind readers constantly of where this book comes from and where this book is going. And so the artists that we invited to contribute to these guest sequences, I think are artists whose work you can look at and sort of draw a straight line from Kirby to their work. Andrew MacLean is doing a few pages coming up next. I think Bernard Chang is doing a few pages. And then I know Filipe Andrade, who's my collaborator on Laila Starr, is coming in to do a guest issue, basically. And so I think the intention there was to present both art styles that were that took heavy influence and have clearly evolved from what Kirby was doing. But also Evan's own art style, which is a much more different sort of progression of where I think that sort of Kirby scale and grand narrative should be in a contemporary setting. So it's been great. The artists have all been fantastic to collaborate with. And it's like the easiest pitch, because so many of these guys are here because they read a New Gods issue at some point, and it blew their mind.
Evan Cagle: Absolutely. From an artistic standpoint, it's great to be either book-ended or to be the book ends for other great art. Having that that sort of collaboration is really gratifying.
I do want to dive into the third issue a bit, but I have to bring up the decision to bring Maxwell Lord into the mix. He’s got a pretty checkered history, Ram, why bring him in?
Ram V: From a purely structural standpoint or a plot standpoint, we had all of these interested parties, right? We've got New Genesis, we've got Apokolips. And then this kid is on Earth, and we've got his parents, and we've got Scott and Barda, and we've got Orion, and they all have different motivations. And so I think, purely for narrative symmetry in my head, I needed someone on Earth who would be interested in acquiring or taking on this child's powers for their own ends. And so in that search, I came across Maxwell Lord. And it surprises me when I know more than fans do. When fans are like, "Oh, that's cool. He's never interacted with New Gods before." And I'm like, "Actually, I'll have you know, there's a long history of Metron, his computer and Maxwell Lord's origins, which you seem to have missed, my friend." So yeah, there's that pre-existing connection there. And then, obviously, JLI, he was interacting with Scott as well. And so, yeah, it made sense to pick a character who fit the mold of the sort of Machiavellian "I know I'm not a god, but I can still control gods if I want to" kind of character, who also wouldn't be entering the fray completely, sort of naive to what these creatures, gods are capable of, because they've interacted with them in the past.
Alright, let’s dissect issue three. First off, Ram the storytelling in this issue is unbelievable. Do you want to talk about what you were thinking with the big cosmic narrative presented here?
Ram V:There are a few motivations here, right? Like issue three, we knew was also going to be an issue where Evan had to take a gap, where he was going to work on the next issues while this was being done. But I hate the idea of doing issues that don't forward anything in the story. So equally, I love the idea of stories, telling stories within themselves. And so this is one of those issues where, essentially, you're getting some movement on what's happening with Apokolips, what's happening with Scott and Barda, what's happening with Kamal/Steed. And so you get that, but you also get a backstory, a history of like, why is there a New God who is being born on Earth? What is his purpose? How did he end up here? And obviously, the joy then becomes "Okay, how can I connect this to what Kirby was doing decades ago and still have it make sense?". And so you see connections to Mother Boxes, to the Second World, to Old Gods, to New Gods. What's a story, if not a place to express your own private preoccupations? So this is my "Chariots of the Gods?", my "It was all aliens!" issue.
It's really one of these stories where I feel like if you're hardcore, and I mean, hardcore DC fan, you're picking up all these little things. I mean, you're referencing Olgrun from the "War World" saga. You referencing the Chronicler from Death Metal...
Ram V: There's also the Father Box reference to as to how that ended up on Earth in Morrison's Sven Soldiers.
That's the thing, you've talked previously about wanting to challenge yourself with so many characters. Is this you going "Okay, every issue I got to keep throwing more and more at myself, because I got to live to this challenge."?
Ram V: It's not, like a volume thing. I just always loved stories that did that, where when you read them initially, you were like, "Oh, another thread. What's happening?". And then they all seem to be kind of floating in their own directions, until you get this kind of moment where you're rewarded for having followed all of these threads that were seemingly going in different directions, and then all of a sudden, they all come together at one point, and you're like, "Holy s***, that was amazing! That feeling is great as a reader, and equally great to pull off as a creator.
No doubt. One of the things I love about this book is the balance you two have struck, because the scenes set on Earth provide the right touch of levity to this story.
Ram V: The soure of levity in this issue is, I would say, is Oberon. Let's give Oberon his fair due. Who doesn't love a grouchy, dwarven, old curmudgeon?
Evan, did you want to talk about incorporating Oberon into this issue because you got another classic Kirby character into the mix?
Evan: I didn't have any real ideas for Oberon until I knew that I was about to draw Oberon. And then I thought about all of the grouchy, crotchetyy old guys that I grew up with in Texas who all wore utility jumpsuits, like almost mechanic-style jumpsuits with greasy knees and gas station name tags on them. I don't know why it was a thing, but for whatever reason, like my grandpa's generation were all about the jumpsuit. And so, yeah, that was my only thing was "I've got to put Oberon in a grouchy, old dude jumpsuit while he's twiddling around his his workshop.
Ram V: I remember sending a reference photo for Doc Brown from Back to the Future and going "Make Oberon like this!".
And it works! But back to Scott and Barna, what is it that gives them a relatability and humanity, more so than the rest of the New Gods?
Ram V: I think of the New Gods, perhaps at least the ones that we've seen so far, they've spent the most amount of time on Earth. And I think also there is that character element of they're both people who have escaped the circumstances that they they were formed in, or they were born into, if you will. For me, it's that feeling of being an immigrant where, I wasn't from the States, but I've lived in the States long enough to know that New York Pizza versus Chicago. I was giving people s*** about the Kansas City Chiefs not winning the Super Bowl. It's that. I think if you were to to quantify what makes someone feel American versus not, what makes someone feel of Earth versus New Gods, it's those things. It is the sort of little humanities, rather than the grand saluting a flag or something. It's the little humanities that define where you are from and who you are. And so I feel like Scott and Barda have been wonderful character studies in that regard. And even when they speak, Orion and Highfather speak, like they are post-British stage play characters. But when Scott and Barda speak, there's very much a sort of informality and colloquial quality to them.
Evan Cagle: They're the ones that have to pay rent. No one else in The New Gods pays rent but Scott and Barda And so, immediately, you're like "I get it. You have to do dishes. I understand who you are.
Evan, I gotta tell you, the thing I really like when it comes to these scenes with the New Gods is the introductions, like Barda's introduction in issue two, where she just comes in, and she's got Liv in her arm, but she has this giant text behind her. Is this you just having fun?
Evan Cagle: That was Ram, I think I said it in another interview. I don't think that it's a Kirby nod or anything like that. I think it's a sort of a classic comic storytelling nod that just it happens to sort of harken back to the, you know, the Golden Age or whatever. But I think there are some things that comics do better than any medium and that's sort of aesthetic is pure comics. Pure comics.
Ram V: It's interesting you say that, because I'm also stealing some of it from Takeshi Kitano and the way he introduces characters in some of his films. I remember watching, I think it was Hana-bi, where the way he introduces new characters are like a camera still. It's not even like a still shot, like a photograph. It's literally a person standing in front of a camera doing nothing for six seconds, while, like the breeze blows past them for six seconds, saying nothing, and then the movie just goes on as if nothing happened, and this new character is introduced. I love moments like that, because they add so much without you ever having to spell out to the reader what they're adding
Looking into the future, you’ve talked previously about how The New Gods is in such a unique position, being the nexus point between the DCU and the Absolute Universes. And we’re starting to see real developments on both sides. As DC All In keeps going, what is that going to mean for what you guys are working on in your book?
Ram V: I think by the time we get to issue seven, the connections between the DC Universe and New Gods are well and truly apparent and ingrained into the story. And I think by the time we get closer to issue 11 or 12...And this was pre-planned, long before there were developments on either side. This was planned the moment we knew New Gods and the Absolute Universe. New Gods were going to be sort of the window, if you will. And so there is a very clear understanding of the existence of potentially this parallel universe, in a way only the New Gods could understand it. And then obviously, what that leads into and how that plays out, we shall see. You know, beyond, beyond the issues that we were talking about right now.
The New Gods #3 is available on February 19th from DC Comics.
